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Episode 215 – An Interview with Dr. Bill Campbell

In this podcast episode, Matt interviews Dr. Bill Campbell during the recent ISSN conference in Vegas. Dr. Bill Campbell, PHD, CSCS, FISSN is an associate professor of Exercise Science and Director of the Performance and Physique Enhancement Laboratory at the University of South Florida. Specializing in Sports Nutrition and recently receiving the 2019 National Strength and Conditioning Association Award.

The two great minds combined in this Interview will have you listening again and again and still finding more gold with each listen. It was an honor to sit with Bill and have him delve into his passion and extensive research, we hope you enjoy it as much as we did!



Full Transcript:

Speaker 1:           Welcome to the ATP Project. Delivering the irreverent truth about health, aging, performance and looking good. If you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired, ready to perform at your best. Or somewhere in between. Then sit back, relax, and open your mind as Jeff and Matt battle the status quo and discuss everything health related that can make you better.

Matt:                     Hey good day, here with your hosts, Matt and Steve-o again.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     And we’re doing some FAQs for our gut right.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     We’ve had a couple of questions come through as part of the- [crosstalk 00:00:39]…most people are in the middle of the ten day challenge. Yeah, there was a couple of questions multiple times.

Steve:                   Mmm.

Matt:                     So we’ve run through a couple of the themes of the questions and that sort of stuff. And hopefully give you the answers that you need.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Just to help get through this bit. The first question here, is this a pre or probiotic? If not, do I need to top up on probiotics after use?

Steve:                   Wow. That’s a good question[crosstalk 00:01:06]

Matt:                     That’s a really good question because you’ve got to understand most people are familiar with the concept of the prebiotic or a probiotic.

Steve:                   Should we tell them what it is?

Matt:                     Yeah, you tell them.

Steve:                   A prebiotic is basically like a soluble fiber that stimulates the growth of bugs in your gut.

Matt:                     That’s food, for bugs.

Steve:                   Food for bugs. And the probiotic is actually the bugs like leftovers [inaudible 00:01:25] those sorts of things.

Matt:                     And those probiotics are alive and they can colonize apparently or their eggs in spore form that go inside you and apparently grow.

Steve:                   Yeah, grow…

Matt:                     And the reason why I kept saying apparently is ’cause there is a bit of a debate about whether the bugs that are in the supplement grow inside you or whether they pass through and have a beneficial effect as dead microbes or by initiating an immune challenge. So to answer your question, when you’re not taking GutRight, what you’ll find is about 10 to 20 percent of the dry mass of your poop is dead bacteria because you’ve got too many. So in most cases majority of people have got too many bugs. Not a deficiency of bugs. And of the thousand strains? Steve-o?

Steve:                   Yeah, there’s a thousand strains in your gut.

Matt:                     So of the thousand strains, most probiotic supplements are made up of [inaudible 00:02:15] half a dozen different strains that we actually supplement with because we have the technology to make them into supplements. So to answer your question, what modbiotic does, it doesn’t indiscriminately eradicate bugs like an antibiotic or antiparasitic treatments and that sort of thing do. What it does is it displaces the bad bugs. It changes the environment. It reduces the amount of yeast and fungi, parasites, mold. It reduces overgrowth of certain bugs, like overgrowth of firmicutes. It’ll even reduce the overgrowth of lactobacillus. But in an instance where you’ve got a deficiency of lactobacillus, it can actually support their growth.

So what’s cool about modbiotics, is it helps to balance out the gut flora. And if you have a look at the definition of dysbiosis, which is the wrong type or the wrong number of bugs in your gut, then modbiotic can actually change both the number and the type. So it can build up the deficient ones and knock off the bad ones. So the only time we really need probiotics is if we’re using them for a specific purpose. So if you’ve done a stool analysis and found specific strains of microbes to be completely gone, you could supplement with probiotics. Again, the reason why I said could with a pause could, I said you could could. The reason I did that is because the reason why these bugs live in our gut is because they’re in our environment.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     So, if you don’t replace them from a supplement form, there’s a fair chance you’ll be replacing them from your hands and from your food and from your environment. And if you set up the right environment in your stomach, they will grow and thrive in the correct ratios.

Steve:                   Yeah. The interesting thing about the modbiotic is like the polyphenols have been consumed for millions of years by humans so our gut has adapted to those. So that’s why its a great regulator of the gut. It doesn’t kill, it doesn’t boost, it modifies. And that’s the perfect name for it, modbiotic.

Matt:                     And a lot of the way it modifies is by modifying the mucosal environment. Changing PH, changing binding site adhesions, making sure there’s not biofilms and other bugs in the way, and allows or gut flora to grow. So you don’t really need it unless you’ve had a stool analysis and shown that there’s a complete deficiency of a particular strain. And you may want to replace it in to get faster results of replenishing that. But, because there’s lack of evidence showing that those supplemental strains actually do adhere and grow inside you, there’s no real evidence that supplementing with the probiotics to replace a deficient strain actually does anything.

Steve:                   Yeah, so this has no bugs in and essentially no prebiotics.

Matt:                     No.

Steve:                   It’s not a probiotic, not a prebiotic.

Matt:                     And most prebiotics that you’re looking at milky sugars. They’re pretty much permea. Remember the ad campaigns a bag and some milk companies were filling theirs up with permea?

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     They’re prebiotics. They’re the sugary, water soluble sugary parts out of the dairy industry.

Steve:                   [inaudible 00:05:07] disaccharides another one. Those sort of things.

Matt:                     Yeah they’re just long sugar chains that indiscriminately feed bugs. If you got the wrong type, then you can’t do it. Now symbiotic, just while we’re talking about it, symbiotics when they mix the food with the bug with the assumption that that bug that’s in that capsule is going to feed on that food but only when it gets inside your belly not in the, anyway.

Steve:                   Such dodgy science.

Matt:                     Let’s go. But we’re learning so much so that’s really kind of cool, the future of probiotics will be totally different.

Steve:                   Yes.

Matt:                     Now why didn’t we put it in capsules. Well, I’ll tell you why. I kind of did to a certain degree. But, when I worked out the dose to be about five grams, you know, four to six grams and that sort of stuff. Put about half a gram in a capsule, we’re looking at about eight capsules would be a typical dose. Which a lot of people don’t care about, but we were getting a lot of other people saying that I’m trying to do my three multi food capsules. I try to do my four [inaudible 00:06:02] capsules and I try and take T432 also in capsules. To add another eight or ten or twelve capsules to your protocol. ‘Cause eight capsules would be four grams approximate of herb, which is one teaspoon. So if you’re doing a ten day challenge which is equivalent to one teaspoon three times a day, then you’d be taking eight capsules three times a day on top of everything else which is you know.

Steve:                   It’s just physics.

Matt:                     Hey interesting though, our capsules that we use in our product are actually made up of hypromellose. Hypromellose, which is a fiber from pine bark, which is in insoluble fiber, which actually helps to provide the prebiotic food for our good friendly bugs.

Steve:                   So even our capsules are good for you without the ingredients.

Matt:                     Yeah. And excipients, where other companies use silicon dioxides and that sort of stuff excipients, we’ve deconstructed rice to make a high silicon powder out of rice. And then we’ve got another one instead of magnesium stearate, we’ve got a waxy part of the rice, the fiber mixed with the oil in the bran which is like a resistant starch which makes an alternative to magnesium stearate. Even our capsules, they’re really gut friendly.

Steve:                   Excellent.

Matt:                     The next question. How long will this last me? Well the ten day challenge, it’ll last ten days.

Steve:                   Really?

Matt:                     But what we find, most of our products if you follow the doses as instructed, I try to base things around about a month. What you’ll find is, the ten day challenge, you’re taking one teaspoon three times a day and you do that for ten days and then at the end of that ten days that’ll be the end of your bottle. Then you can take one teaspoon daily from there on.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     And each bottle should then last you about a month if you use it everyday.

Steve:                   Yeah, absolutely.

Matt:                     And if you had a metric spoon. But anyway, next question. Can children use this? Yeah, well my kids do. My boys are three and four. They are around about the 20 kilo mark sort of thing. Probably [inaudible 00:08:00] more, they’re [inaudible 00:08:01]. But they take about a quarter of teaspoon. So what’s really interesting is, and they do this most days. So we make up a smoothie and that sort of stuff. If they’re coming down with something, ’cause they go to day care a couple of days a week to mingle with the other ferrals, you know. And so sometimes they come back, they bring things back with them. All of a sudden they’re taking the same treatment and their guts will flare up a bit. They get a bit stinky and stuff like that. And they’re doing a bit of a die off, a kill off of something that’s come through. Really important for kids, for a 20 kilo kid up to about 40 kilos, I’d still only use about a quarter of a teaspoon.

Steve:                   Yeah, you don’t need a lot. Remember kids are people too as they say and they can have adult stuff usually. There’s very rare occasions where they [crosstalk 00:08:42]

Matt:                     You’ve got some weird ass rule for working out official…tell them the rule that adults use to dose things up for kids.

Steve:                   It’s called youngs rule and what you do is take the age of the child and lets say the child is eight cause math is easy. You divide it by the number 16. at 16 years they’re considered an adult and that sort of thing. And then times it by the adult dose. So 8 divided by 16 is one half.

Matt:                     So that’s saying he’s halfway to an adult so he takes half of it.

Steve:                   It’s pretty simple.

Matt:                     So when you’re 16 you’re an adult.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     So you work out how close to being an adult you are…

Steve:                   Correct.

Matt:                     And then divide the adult does by that.

Steve:                   Yeah, so if you’re four, it’s a quarter of a dose.

Matt:                     That was crazy, you know when I was 16 I was 100 kilos and my dad was 60. He was 60 kilos, I was 100 kilos when I was 16.

Steve:                   You’re not the smallest man in the world too you know.

Matt:                     No. But anyway.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     That’s an interesting fact that I just threw in there for you.

Steve:                   [crosstalk 00:09:34]

Matt:                     [inaudible 00:09:34]I was the airport the other day and they were trying to say my bag was a couple of kilos over and I said just quietly “do you know I weigh 120 kilos” and they just look at me going who cares. And I said I’m on the same plane. Like this poor little lady here, she’s got the same baggage allowance as me and she weighs 12 kilos and the poor things, I hope she’s sitting next to me.

Steve:                   Well you just worry about the whole discrimination about…

Matt:                     You know what the funniest thing is?

Steve:                   What?

Matt:                     If it’s too heavy, they give it to you to carry on top. Add it to your 120 kilos and put it in your backpack you fat buggard. It’s to heavy for under the plane, you put it in the middle of the plane.

Steve:                   It’s amazing cause it gets worse. They say it’s too pay for the extra fuel to get them off of the ground. So your extra weight, you’re 40 kilos heavier than me, so that doesn’t count. But the extra two kilos of luggage, no it’s not the 40 kilos… right okay.

Matt:                     You know what the stupidest things is?

Steve:                   What is it?

Matt:                     In the contest lounge, they serve baked beans.

Steve:                   Oh yeah, that’s bizarre.

Matt:                     [inaudible 00:10:35] Anyway, now back to this. Can I use this while pregnant or breastfeeding? So technically can. There’s no real thing in there, but what you gotta do is do it under the supervision of your healthcare professional.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     So when you’re under pregnancy, under pregnancy? So when you’re pregnant and breastfeeding, work under the supervision of your doctors, your naturopaths, your pharmacists, whoever’s observing these things. Because what can often happen is you can have changes in flavors, you can have changes in textures to breast milk. You might have…

PART 1 OF 3 ENDS [00:11:04]

Matt:                     … and have changes in textures to breast milk. You might have some other compounds and that sort of stuff that are having some effects that, in your particular case, you might be sensitive to, or the bub might be sensitive to. And the slightest things like just changing the breast milk so the bub dodges a couple of feeds is enough to stuff up the whole breastfeeding process.

In my situation, last time I’m thinking usually just wait. Do foods as much as possible and wait, but if you’ve got problems and you need to do something and you’re under supervision of a health care professional …

Steve:                   I’d agree because the stuff in there, if you look at it, there’s chocolate, there’s nutmeg, there’s cinnamon, there’s these sorts of things, which-

Matt:                     There’s no chocolate.

Steve:                   Oh.

Matt:                     Cacao.

Steve:                   Cacao. So these sort of things are commonly consumed every day anyway. The broccoli, it’s not a weed out there-

Matt:                     It’s like garlic. Garlic is really good to put into your diet because it can help mastitis and that sort of stuff and some bubs like the way it changes the milk and some bubs don’t. It’s one of those things, you just need to be aware that if things go a bit pear-shaped with your breastfeeding, you’re not debating, “Oh, was it this supplement? Was it this? Was it that?” So that’s why it’s good to work with a professional that can kind of strategize with your thingies.

Steve:                   Yeah, and you don’t want to get a massive die off and feel real sick while you’re pregnant, these sort of things. You’ve got to do it a bit carefully. Under supervision’s a great answer.

Matt:                     So the next question regarding GutRight is, can I cook with it? Yes you can. Don’t microwave it though.

Steve:                   No.

Matt:                     What’s your stats with polyphenols in the microwave?

Steve:                   97% loss if you microwave.

Matt:                     Yeah, so they don’t do real good in the microwave, the polyphenols, but you can heat these things. You can cook with them. You can add them to bikkies and cookies. We make little honey … they look like Tiny Teddies. We found a mold that looks like Tiny Teddies because my kid, someone gave him Tiny Teddies once. It’s equivalent to crack for kids. They crave it. I’ll tell you what- We made these little Tiny Teddy shaped things and filled them up with Manuka honeys and GutRight, they gnarl them, they love them.

Steve:                   Commonly I have the GutRight with no whey, I just blend it up. Remember the weekend at the Arnold’s where they had donuts, the no whey donuts.

Matt:                     Yeah, so go to our webpage and on our social stuff, there’s all sorts of recipes there. We’ve got Sarah, Dan and Melvin just whipping up some amazing stuff. She made these GutRight cookies and pancakes and stuff. Follow our recipes and, yes, we’re teaching you how to cook with it.

This is the whole point, this is why I’m so excited about GutRight. The reason why we made it was everything went to shit. Seriously, all our food got changed. Everyone assumed that sugar this, we need fiber, all that sort of stuff, but what’s missing is the polyphenols. So what happened is that fibers, that colored, stinky, smelly, bitter poisonous parts of the plant that no one wanted to eat have disappeared. But they haven’t totally disappeared, we found a whole heap of it and put it into a bucket so you can put it back into your food. So this is the whole reason, my ultimate goal is for people to look at the recipes and the ingredients in it, starting adding those foods into their diet, spiking it up with more of this sort of stuff and it just becomes part of your diet and you keep your guts good. And your whole family might be doing it in the future, too.

Matt:                     Absolutely.

Matt:                     Next question. Do I need to follow a diet while taking it? If so, which one? So the concept of this is, when we’re doing the 10 day challenge for the GutRight, our goal is to starve the bugs in your large intestine predominantly. Most of these bugs are going to be large intestine except for those people who have been diagnosed with [parvo 00:14:28] or something, you heard of that, which is in the small intestine.[crosstalk 00:14:30]

Steve:                   Small intestine microbial [crosstalk 00:14:31]

Matt:                     But most of the problem is in the large intestine. What they feed on is sugar so the whole concept, the dietary intervention in the early phases, is to starve the buggers of sugar. One of the reasons why is some of the mod biotic compounds are called polysaccharides, which are sugar molecules, they’re sugars. Basically, what happens is these bugs are starving of sugar, they’re dying off, they’re bloody hungry, then what happens is that they start sucking out poisons and die. If you’re feeding them a heap of sugar at the same time as they poison, they might get enough sugar that they don’t get the poison and then they can thrive, and they don’t die.

So we want to starve the bastards. The only sugars, really, that I’m concerned about in the short term are the sugars that might get into the large intestine which are complex sugars. I put up a diet on our webpage called The Specific Carbohydrate Diet which comes from a lady called Elaine Gottschall originally “Breaking the Vicious Cycle” is the name of a book. It’s a real cool book.

Steve:                   I remember it.

Matt:                     No, it’s a good one and she was an old nurse that worked in intensive care units and things like that and realized that when they put people on an elemental diet, their guts come good. An elemental diet was, basically, I think it was whey protein, canola and glucose put through a drip into, sorry, a gastric tube sort of thing, a nasal gastric tube so the sugars go in. When they’re on that, their gut problems stop. She couldn’t work it out. I don’t think there was any therapeutic benefits out of the canola and the whey so what she decided it was the glucose. So the simple sugars only meant there was no complex sugars getting to the gut which means there was no overgrowth of bugs. This diet that I’ve written up, The Specific Carb Diet, basically just lists all the foods that have predominantly simple sugars and it’s avoiding the foods which have got long complex sugars so we’re taking away the starches like rice, sweet potato. Now what’s surprising about that is most people with bowel problems get told to follow a bland diet.

Steve:                   Yeah, they go, “What does that mean?”

Matt:                     Most of them assume that is bland tasting food so they got the rice, potato, bread.

Steve:                   White bread, too.

Matt:                     Yeah, which is all of the stuff that is the worse thing for feeding your gut bugs. It’s got the complex starches that go all the way to the bowel. That’s the diet. The rest of the plan in the diet is to actually show you which foods are high in polyphenols. What’s surprising is, it turns out to be the same foods. So the foods that are lower in sugar, tend to be higher in polyphenols. That’s the whole concept of the diet.

Steve:                   Good, yeah. It’s on the website, check it out.

Matt:                     Yeah, check it out. Otherwise, you can follow a keto diet-

Steve:                   Yeah, a keto diet.

Matt:                     Or a paleo diet, pretty much.

Steve:                   Is there any complex carbs in paleo diet? Yes, [crosstalk 00:17:02] sweet potato, that sort of thing. There are a few but keto diet is more accurately described for a good gut diet.

Matt:                     Yeah, so cut out the complex carbs and but, the funny thing is, because I used to screw with people. They could tolerate lollies and stuff like that with a bad gut because the sugar gets absorbed before it gets [crosstalk 00:17:21] to the bugs so avoid the complex carbs while you’re poisoning the suckers, but that’s only for the 10 day challenge. Then go back to whatever diet suits you. Next question. How long do I take this for? Forever, because our food is screwed because of you crazy people choosing on buying foods with no seeds and thin skins and wanting white bread and weird ass stuff like multi grain and things that aren’t rotten and things.

Steve:                   Also, you buy it from your supermarket which means sitting there and the polyphenols levels drop dramatically.

Matt:                     Basically, our food’s changed so much and because our food’s changed so much, the microbiome that lives on this stuff has changed as well. They’ve all changed and we haven’t, we’re starting to get sick. That’s simple way of explaining it.

Steve:                   Simple. There’s a lot of good stuff in there, not just for your gut, it’s good for your body, really, this stuff.

Matt:                     Next one. Will GutRight cause headaches and mood swings? [inaudible 00:18:12] No, man, but other things can, like what we call a healing crisis or at least what we associate with a Herxheimer reaction. As we kill off these bloody things, they explode. As they explode, they release some poisons. Your body has to deal with that. When the liver gets an acute [phase 00:18:28] response, it makes your blood sticky, that can contribute to headaches. Otherwise, inflammatory reactions associated with bacteria cell wall exposure from the shrapnel, you might say, that can trigger a lot of rubbish so a lot of reaction, you have to clear that, a lot of inflammatory stuff, a lot of sticky blood.

The body has a cool way of isolating things by making the blood go gluggy and sticky so it doesn’t want to spread to your brain so it says, “Right, well we’ll shut down the blood supply today to the head, stop these poisons from going there for a little bit.” That can cause headaches. Mood swings, definitely. An interesting thing, frustration. I love in the traditional Chinese medicine they associate different organs and lots of stuff with different emotions and that whole enterohepatic circulation sort of stuff, it’s all linked in with frustration and irritability. I’ll lay a little shit on the liver. I’m feeling bilious and fractured.

Steve:                   I’m feeling liver-ed today.

Matt:                     Yeah, liver-ish. Yeah, yeah, funny guy. Anyway. Next one was bloating and gas but no stools. You don’t even have one of these.

Steve:                   No, you took mine [crosstalk 00:19:28] Brooklyn gave me. That’s alright.

Matt:                     Brooker sucks. Did we just want to talk about that for a bit, how much Brooker sucks.

Steve:                   She’s listening to this. I don’t know. Anyway, what are we talking about, [Stevo 00:19:40]? [inaudible 00:19:40] what is the question?

Matt:                     Bloating and gas but not stools. Is this normal, to be expected? My chair’s rolling away. Basically, what you’ll find happening, is when you get an overgrowth of bugs a certain amount of people stay regular because they’re making lots of mucus. They’re having inflammatory reactions, they’re having immune reactions, they’re having allergies and intolerances and they’re getting a lot of flushing and that will keep their poos coming through every day. When we take the GutRight and we start killing off a lot of these bugs, we’re stopping a lot of those immune reactions and we can significantly reduce the amount of flushing and mucus that’s in the stools.

Steve:                   Of course.

Matt:                     If you’re one of those people who stayed regular because of that, then definitely you’re going to slow down.

Steve:                   An interesting thing is like, for example, wheat is one of the foods that you shouldn’t really be eating when you’re on this product. If you go off wheat, it’s going to change your gut dramatically on itself plus the GutRight.

Matt:                     Yeah, yeah, and a lot of people are cutting back or making significant changes to their diet. Some people are thinking of doing gut protocol so are going to add in extra fiber. That extra fiber is actually clogging them up. Other people are the opposite, that were doing a lot of fiber have stopped taking the fiber and using GutRight. Now with GutRight we’re looking about 30% of the blend being fiber so only in the five gram spoon we’re looking about one and a half grams of fiber so it’s not a huge amount of fiber in there. 30% of that fiber is a resistant starch, the other 30% insoluble, the rest is soluble. It’s not so much a fiber supplement because in my clinical experience, I had more people that I took off fiber then I ever put on fiber because most people had that assumption that you need fiber to keep moving but in some cases you get that dry, hard stools. You definitely don’t need extra fiber.

Steve:                   We did a podcast on it. We should refer them to that.

Matt:                     Yeah, we did. What number was it, Steve? [crosstalk 00:21:22]

Steve:                   Oh, yeah, I could say 149, but I could be wrong with that so I’m quite beyond that. [crosstalk 00:21:27] This is not being recorded is it? No, no. But we did a podcast on poop. It was called all sorts of names.

Matt:                     Process of Elimination, I think is what we settled on.

Steve:                   Exactly. Brooklyn, that was good. That was Brooklyn again. She’s good.

Matt:                     Funny Brooker, she sucks. So, anyway. Next question. Is there gluten in the GutRight as it contains barley sprout?

Steve:                   Sprout.

Matt:                     You just answered your own question. There’s no gluten in barley sprout. But, you have to be aware of how they sprout barley. It comes from barley seed which is the barley grain. So, when they get the little seedy grain…

PART 2 OF 3 ENDS [00:22:04]

Matt:                     seed which is the barley grain. When they get the little seedy grain and they put it in their little cotton wool bud with a bit of water and it sprouts, pretty much it’s not much different than that, just glorified version of that, what you’ll actually find is the barley sprout itself is gluten free. The husk of the shell that was left over will have gluten in it. But what they do is they mow the grass so we take only the green leafy bits and they leave the rest behind. What it is, is in our product there is no gluten. In the raw materials of the barley sprout and leaf is no gluten. In the factory where they make barley sprout from barley seeds and grain there is gluten. So the paper work always has to come in and we always have to make out, not make out, we have to let you know there is always a potential for a trace levels to go through.

If we have a look at the barley sprout contributing about one percent of the total powder,

Steve:                   Yeah, it’s not much.

Matt:                     And if we have a look at trace amounts, like negligible levels, I don’t know if you know this. I don’t know if anyone else really knows this, but it really spun me out, do you know there is an acceptable level of gluten contamination for you still to be gluten free.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     You can test for this. This is crazy. There are products out there labeled gluten free that have actually been tested and found to contain gluten at a low enough concentration that they can still label it gluten free. But they’ve tested it and it pops up and says there’s gluten here, yet they can still label it gluten free.

Steve:                   Yeah.

Matt:                     Because it’s under a level. Is that weird though?

Steve:                   Yeah, but that happens a lot because it says below detectable levels or but even though it’s detectable. It’s weird because some people could be that sensitive.

Matt:                     Yeah. So it’s weird. But you can actually write it. You can have a thing an alarm come on in your test saying there’s gluten here. There’s gluten here and still label it gluten free.

Steve:                   I think gluten’s in rye, wheat, barley and oats. They are your typical gluten grains. That’s where you find gluten for those who don’t know.

Matt:                     Next one. What’s the lectin content of GutRight? Is this suitable for people with immune autoimmune? Now, lectin’s a weird ass thing. Lectin’s a, what are they? They’re little antennas where sugars attach and the proteins oxidize and-

Steve:                   They’re found in pretty much all plants.

Matt:                     30 percent have lectins?

Steve:                   Well, 30 percent have huge amounts. It’s still in some plants. So pretty much all plants but a lot of it’s in 30 percent [crosstalk 00:24:30].

Matt:                     And in us. We’re full of lectins.

Steve:                   Yeah. Especially type C as we talked about before. That’s a type of lectin so they can cross react however, they’re certain lectins in food that are actually beneficial for us, especially for autoimmune disease.

Matt:                     Yeah. When people started talking about lectins was mainly around the blood type diet and he tested a couple of things

Steve:                   [crosstalk 00:24:50] He did, yeah.

Matt:                     but he commented on every food. That’s what I hated about that because I started doubting which bit was real and which bit was fake.

Steve:                   He also said that why I can’t have red meat, not because of lectins but ’cause no lectins in meat, but it’s because we got low stomach acid typically. But the individual could have high stomach acid and be able to tolerate it.

Matt:                     Yeah. And that’s weird anyway. That’s got nothing to do with it. He traced everything back to what his belief of evolution was and what we were eating at that time through stages of evolution.

Steve:                   Yeah. Yeah. Like the [inaudible 00:25:22].

Matt:                     The new stuff with lectin is they found a lot of these lectins associated with autoimmunity but a lot of those lectins are actually our lectins aren’t they?

Steve:                   Yeah. Body, yeah.

Matt:                     They’re not the food ones so we’ve got C type lectins are the main ones associated with the autoimmunity they’re investigating but they’re the ways that our immune cells wipe out bugs.

Steve:                   And communicate, yeah.

Matt:                     And the problem is, so what I can see with these lectins and autoimmune, they use themselves to drive the autoimmune process. What precedes all autoimmunity is usually some form of gut dis regular or immune dysregulation for sure but adrenal exhaustion allows this memory to take hold and continue.

Steve:                   Absolutely, like this paper here. Where polyphenols in cacao.

Matt:                     Cacao.

Steve:                   Cacao actually ameliorates autoimmune cardiac issues in mice. So not all lectins are evil things otherwise you wouldn’t be eating plants pretty much.

Matt:                     And it’s cranberries claim to fame is all these lectins that actually block the adhesion of candidas and yeasts and fungis and molds and all sorts of stuff.

Steve:                   Exactly right. You gotta remember that this is gonna, lot like I’ve talked about-

Matt:                     There’s no tomato, there’s no soy, there’s no wheat, there’s none of these lectins that have been associated with high grade inflammatory conditions. The lectins in our product are the ones naturally occurring as part of the modbiotic system.

Steve:                   Have for years. For centuries.

Matt:                     ‘Cause a lectin is a modbiotic.

Steve:                   Of course it is.

Matt:                     Yeah.So we got good ones.

Steve:                   That’s a good question. Yeah. We’ve got the good ones. Non reactive ones.

Matt:                     Yeah. All right. Next one. Will this help with skin conditions and food intolerances? Yes. Yes it will.

Steve:                   Very much so.

Matt:                     Basically when you’re looking at skin conditions you’re either looking at an allergic an intolerance style rashes and reactions or you’re looking at autoimmune style psoriasis and that sort of thing. And that immune dysregulation is all controlled by the mucosal immunity. So yes absolutely it’s gonna help with that.

Steve:                   80 percent of your immune systems in your gut so [crosstalk 00:27:06].

Matt:                     Yeah. And same with food intolerance is significantly more than avoiding foods ’cause we’re gonna re-establish a gut wall and change the way your body processes the foods.

Steve:                   Exactly right.

Matt:                     Next one. Can you use other forms of protein when on it? Hey, that’s a really good question ’cause this is kind of different, kinda throw things around a bit. So if you have a look at the different proteins. I’m assuming other forms of protein other than NOWAY because that’s our protein.

Steve:                   It’s the only protein, isn’t it?

Matt:                     So NOWAY is a collagen based one so that’s the best of course. But if you wanna have a look at others so what I wouldn’t recommend with this is pea protein. Because what you’re gonna do is you’re gonna block amylase. You’re gonna block the absorption of carbs. ‘Cause beans make you fart. Peas and beans make you fart because they block the digestion of carbohydrate and allow the carbohydrate to get all the way down into the lower bowel. Any of those fat loss proteins that contain a white kidney bean extract phaseolamin or something like that, those things block the break down of carbs and they provide the carbs for the bugs. It’s like instant thrush for those people that are predisposed. Avoid those one.

If you’re looking for veggie protein I’d say rice protein but make sure you go for the low carb, everything go low carb for this process. Rice protein’s a good veggie protein. Our collagen one, otherwise if you do a whey try to go like a hydrolyzed whey or a whey protein isolate. Really gotta get away from anything that’s got the word whey protein concentrate or milk solids or anything like that in the blend because that’s an indication that there’s possibly lactose. One other thing to really dodge in this sort of stuff is anything with probiotics so any one where they add oligofructose, fructo, oligosaccharides all those sort of weird ass things.

Steve:                   Also thickeners like xanthan gum could be an issue because they’ll get to the bar.

Matt:                     Yeah. That’ll contribute a little bit. In the NOWAY we use a little bit of xanthan gum to give that thickening. Otherwise it’s just like water.

Steve:                   And it’s normally good for you. It’s a soluble fiber. There’s nothing wrong with it. You don’t wanna eat too much of this sort of stuff.

Matt:                     Yeah. We just wanna poison our food. Next one is here. I’m on day seven and I have felt nothing. That’s kind of cool because what that actually … what people are feeling when these people are commenting that there’s something died inside them and these people losing their friends and taking their dog to work and all that sort of stuff. They’re having horrendous experiences because of the stuff that’s living inside them. So this has to do with your degree of die off. Some idiot named it after himself the Herxheimer reaction. Burp and fart and gurgle and nausea, blah, blah, blah. It’s to do with the degree of die off of your bacteria. If you have maintained a relatively healthy type of bugs or you don’t have those full grown parasites and yeasts and fungis that when you kill them they release all sorts of toxins then yeah, you’re lucky enough to go through the proper clean out phase without having severe reactions then you’re good. Unless you always stunk.

Steve:                   Unless you’re always sick, yeah.

Matt:                     Unless you always stink, rotten and then it’s no different to me. You still smell like a dead animal. You notice how I put on my [baggin 00:30:09] voice there.

Steve:                   Baggin voice, yes.

Matt:                     Make every sentence sound like a question and you start sounding like an Australian.

Steve:                   [crosstalk 00:30:14] at the end.

Matt:                     You gotta put everything, make it a little bit higher, ’cause we’re always so confused.

Steve:                   Yeah?

Matt:                     Is this suitable for fodmap?

Steve:                   Fodmap? What’s a fodmap? Well, it’s not something like a map to find out where you’re gonna go camping on the weekend.

Matt:                     Where is my fod?

Steve:                   Where is your fodmap?

Matt:                     I’ve lost my fod. I need directions.

Steve:                   It’s a long acronym. It basically soluble fibers fructooligosaccharides and medium chain things and all this sort of stuff.

Matt:                     You’re trying to work out what fodmap stands for all of a sudden aren’t ya?

Steve:                   Fructooligosaccharides, yeah, can’t remember.

Matt:                     All that sort of stuff.

Steve:                   Basically fodmap diet is a low soluble fiber diet because you’ve got dysbiotic bacteria in your small intestine so you’re trying to starve them of those soluble fibers. To me it’s a weird way of doing something because why don’t you just kill the bugs in there. Get your guts right so you don’t have to worry about fodmap diets.

Matt:                     Yeah. That’s the key. While we’re starving the bastards we throw the poison down and they suck it in more and then they’re gone so you’re not having to restrict their favorite foods.

Steve:                   Exactly.

Matt:                     And then when you put those really healthy, awesome foods that you’ve restricted back in, they feed the good bugs.

Steve:                   Good bugs. It makes sense. As I said this is perfect for people with small bowel overgrowth.

Matt:                     You had any other questions?

Steve:                   No I think that covers it.

Matt:                     Yeah. That covers it. That covers it. They’re the main ones I’ve heard. I’m just racking my brain to see if there’s anything anyone else has said to me.

Steve:                   There’ll be more. We’ll do it again.

Matt:                     Yeah. They’ll be more. All right. Thanks guys. Enjoy your 10 day challenge.

Steve:                   Enjoy. See ya guys.

Speaker 1:           Thanks for listening and remember question everything, well, except what we say.

PART 3 OF 3 ENDS [00:31:59]