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Episode 54 – Are your vitamins killing you?!


Welcome to the ATP Project, Episode 54 – Vitamins: Are they killing you or worse, making you fat?

In today’s podcast Matt and I discuss a study on a Vitamin paradox and obesity, and whether it comes from a deficiency or an excess in Vitamins.

• Uncovering some amazing fact about Vitamin Supplementation.
• Proof they may not be worth taking, and may be doing you harm.
• The culprit? Synthetic Vitamins.

Stay tuned, the ATP Project is about to start.

Welcome to the ATP Project, you’re with your hosts Matt and Jeff.

Jeff: Matty, how are you doing?

Matt: Good. How are you doing?

Jeff: Mate, we’ve got an interesting podcast today—well, we think it’s interesting. You’ll be the judge of that, people listening.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: The Vitamin Paradox: now, we obviously have been looking into Vitamins quite a lot because we’ve got our new product coming out, and Matt, there’s some research coming forward which is—well, it’s Paradoxical.

Matt: That’s right.

Jeff: What does that mean? The Paradox is interesting, because we know that if we don’t get enough Vitamins we die, and most people, especially those that listen to our podcast are relatively health conscious or they’re getting into it, and I would say a large percentage of the population, Matt, who are health aware are taking a Multivitamin. And, people take Multivitamins or specific Vitamins for several reasons, but the main reasons are, one; because they’re concerned they’re not getting enough from their food because they are worried about farming practises, processing, green harvesting, gas ripening. They understand the overuse of fertilisation where they’re putting only a few ingredients back into the soil, they’re not allowing the soil to lay fallow anymore, which is an ancient practise where they would allow the land, I think every seven years, they wouldn’t actually pick the crop and then the crop would fall and they’d plough it back in to get all the Vitamins and Nutrients back in.

Matt: Crop rotation and all those things.

Jeff: All those. Which is kind of cool, because Toni used to do that with her little garden. She never used to use pesticides or herbicides or anything, all she would do was she would plant certain plants alongside other plants and that would keep away the bugs that wanted to eat those plants.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: So anyway, Matt, a lot of people are taking them because of that reason, a lot of people are taking them because they’re concerned or they believe in the power of Vitamins and Minerals to help their body stay strong and healthy, help the Immune System fight off sickness, illness, disease, cancers, all those sorts of things as well.

Matt: And, a lot of people are now searching through the tech data and the research shows that Vitamin Deficiencies are associated with lots of diseases.

Jeff: Well, Scurvy, Beriberi, we know those, those are famous cases.

Matt: But, even Obesity and Diabetes and Cardio Vascular Disease, they’ve all been linked with Vitamin Deficiencies. But, this is the Paradox.

Jeff: So, what is the Paradox?

Matt: Well, the Paradox is when people supplement with Vitamins that they’re deficient in it doesn’t necessarily fix them and sometimes it makes it worse. The research has actually showing that diseases are associated with Vitamin Deficiencies but then whenever the Government typically does initiatives to increase the Vitamin content and in the diet through food fortification and supplementation it’s actually been shown to make those diseases worse, not better.

Jeff: Right.

Matt: And, that’s the Paradox that we’re trying to get to the bottom of. That leads us to researching what is the right dose, and what’s the right form of Vitamin and everything that we need. And, that’s the challenge.

Jeff: I’ll just say that probably 90% of the people listening to this podcast right now, Matt, are using Multivitamins in some form or other, whether it’s a Multivitamin one a day, two a day, whatever they might be taking, or they might be using it for specific purposes, to help overcome and illness or to work on a Deficiency. Now, being a Naturopath, Matt, I know that you utilise Vitamins as those sorts of tools where necessary.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: But, before we get into the real catch word here, which is Synthetic Vitamins, because there’s a study that we’re going to talk about, and actually there’s a few studies, there’s one, particularly, that I’ve read which is pretty heavy going, but we’re going to put the link up onto the website, which is from the World Journal of Diabetes, it’s a peer reviewed study which was done in 2015, so we’re talking only last year, Matt.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: And, we’ll get into that a little bit more. But, the results of that study were absolutely fascinating, mind blowing in fact. I would say it’s revolutionary. And, certainly from my point of view, and obviously we talk a lot, it’s mind blowing just how bad, or how big the impact of Synthetic Vitamins is on Global Health.

Matt: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Jeff: It’s amazing.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: So, let’s talk about Vitamins, Matt, and their place and where they should be. And again, and we mention this a lot, the father of modern medicine, Hippocrates, “Food be your Medicine, let Medicine be your Food.” Because, if you’re getting quality food, and again, we talk about eating fresh, eating local, eating what’s in season. You and I are big proponents of organic or natural foods because, typically, they have less of the pesticides and the herbicides. If the soil is looked after, then hopefully it’s got more of the Minerals. And, that’s the thing, just because something is organic doesn’t necessarily mean it’s got more of the Minerals and Nutrients in the plant, because if the soil’s no good–that’s where it’s coming from, right?

Matt: Yeah, exactly. And, then the processing techniques and that sort of stuff as well.

Jeff: Of course.

Matt: So, basically, what we have to understand is the history of the whole process that we’re talking about. They started investigating all these diseases and finding links to Vitamin Deficiencies, so then what they did was they created initiatives to improve our Vitamin intake.

Jeff: Right.

Matt: So, those initiatives were educational programs telling us to eat certain foods, creating Food Pyramids and that sort of stuff.

Jeff: The Food Pyramids, yeah interesting. Do you want to delve into that a little bit?

Matt: Yeah, yeah. Well, it probably started with Popeye. You know, how they did the comic books and everything to show…

Jeff: Glug, glug, glug.

Matt: Yeah, that guy. Eat the spinach and that sort of stuff to get more Iron?

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: The interesting bit about that is they found out recently that there was a mistake in there, that some German scientist put a decimal point in the wrong spot and so they thought there was 35mgs of Iron per serve but there was, actually, 3.5. So, they went and did this whole campaign, a whole Government initiative and everything to encourage people to eat more spinach by admiring Popeye’s strength, and it was all based on a misprint, an error where they’d put the decimal point.

So, it’s funny to see how far a Government initiative can go before they actually go and check the science and have a look, which is what we’re seeing now in the statistics, 100 years later, after Food Fortification.

Jeff: Yeah. And, just with regards to Popeye before you go on and make your point, interestingly, how old would you say Popeye was supposed to be, Matt?

Matt: I’ve no idea.

Jeff: Have a guess. What does he look like to you?

Matt: 40.

Jeff: Yeah, to me he looked like somebody who was in his 50s. He was 35. He had huge forearms and no bicep whatsoever, and pipe smoking and all the rest of it; he was supposed to have appealed to people in the Second World War—well, he actually came out in the 1920s. Interestingly enough though, you were saying before there was a mistake, because it was about big business trying to get people to eat spinach, right?

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: Beef has got more Iron in it. I think, actually, there’s an Ad on TV at the moment saying, “If you’re eating spinach you can get the same amount of Iron from beef. I think, 100grams of beef has got more Iron in it than what you get in your spinach. Anyway, it’s all for a point, and this is the thing, we’ve got to look behind the reasons and the motivations why companies are pushing certain agendas.

Matt: Yeah, exactly. So, with the Food Pyramid that’s more based on industry than it is on where the actual Nutrient levels are.

Jeff: Mm.

Matt: But, what they did then, they started Fortifying Foods. So, they went and said, “Eat these foods,” and then they encouraged us to eat lots of breads and dairy and that sort of stuff, and then they started Fortifying those foods with the Vitamins that they believed we were Deficient in that were causing our health problems.

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: Vitamin B1, B2, Folic Acid; they were the first ones that were in the Food Fortification. Then, following on from there was Supplementation. So, then they started creating Vitamin Supplements. But, what you’ll find, those were the initiatives that they put in place to correct Vitamin Deficiencies that were created by poor farming practises, poor food choices, and poor food processing techniques. So, instead of correcting the farming processes, the food choices and the food processing techniques, they decided to Supplement our Foods, or Fortify our Foods with Synthetic Vitamins that weren’t found in nature and added it into the Foods. Some of them were found in nature but not necessarily in those high doses and in those single Vitamin forms. In nature we find lots of little bits of all sorts of Vitamins, and when we eat food we get lots of different types of Folate, for example, we get lots of different types of Vitamin As and Es and all that sort of stuff.

Jeff: And, you say Folate, not Folic Acid, and that’s important.

Matt: Yeah, exactly. Well, Folic Acid is not found in plants, Folic Acid is not found in food. So, Folic Acid is the oxidised, or the hydrolysed form of Folates. So, when we look at Folates we’re looking at the different forms of Tetrahydrofolates and Methylenetetrahydrofolate and all those…

Jeff: What does that mean, Matt?

Matt: They’re just different forms of Folate that are found in nature. When we cook the food or when we extract the Folates out of food into water they’re oxidised and hydrolysed and that forms Folic Acid. Then, Folic Acid then is used in the supplemental form. To put it in perspective, if you wanted to make a supplement that contains a certain amount of Folic Acid, if you want to do it the natural way then what you’d have to do is, you’d have to go through and correct all those farming practises, you’d have to correct all the food processing techniques, you would then have to measure the levels of natural Folate found in your food so you knew how much of that food powder, or whatever, to add to your supplement or to add to a food to spike it up to give you a certain amount of Folate. The way they measure the natural Folates in food is by digesting or dissolving that food into water and measuring the Folic Acid.

Jeff: Right.

Matt: They didn’t have the technology…

Jeff: It’s almost like a marker?

Matt: Yeah, that’s exactly what it is, it’s just a marker to give us an indication of how much natural Folates were found in that food. And, you’ve got to remember, this all started over 100 years ago where they didn’t have the technology we’ve got today to measure, and it’s still really hard today because people still just use Folic Acid as a marker. So, what happens is, they go through, they get the foods, and as you know, foods vary from season to season, they’re levels of folate in the food is going to change. The farming practises and the processing techniques is going to make significant changes to the level of Folate per 100 grams of that food powder. Now, what happens then is they convert it all to Folic Acid and say, “This food yields this much Folic Acid,” but that becomes the standardised marker, like you’re saying.

So then, when they put it onto the side of a bottle or onto a packet, they’ve spiked it up with this much food, yielding this much Folic Acid, so people start looking at the word Folic Acid thinking, “Folic Acid is the active, Folic Acid is the actual magic, that’s the stuff. And, we’re going to compare the Folic Acid content of this food to the Folic Acid content of this food to know which food is stronger is in Folic Acid or how much of that food I need to eat or add or supplement with.” The end result is, people are looking at Folic Acid and just going, “Folic Acid is all I need, I’m not even going to look at the amount of actual foods in there, because all I’m interested in is the number of Folic Acid.” So, then you consider the costs and the expenses and the effort that goes to creating food properly to yield Folate compared to synthetically making Folic Acid, and that’s where the problems come in.

The Vitamin Paradox is, they had the right intentions, because we’ve got Deficiencies of these things, Deficiencies of these Nutrients, but they used the wrong tool to correct it, and when they use synthetic forms of these compounds it can create more harm than good.

Jeff: Well, Toni for example, and any women that’s either trying to get pregnant or has been pregnant have all been recommended, or should have been recommended—I shouldn’t say shouldn’t, but has been recommended to take Folic Acid as part of the natural forming of the—is it the Fallopian Tubes—I forget what it is?

Matt: No, the Neural Tube in the baby.

Jeff: The Neural Tube, to help with Spina Bifida and some other things like that.

Matt: Yeah, Neural Tube defects.

Jeff: That’s it. So, Matt, are you suggesting as well, too, that Folate trying to find a source of Folate would be better, and to eat foods that are high in Folates would be more ideal?

Matt: Well, this is the thing with it. Folic Acid does prevent Neural Tube defects, that’s been well studied. Because, if you’ve got a Deficiency of the natural forms of Folate then the body can get some of that Folic Acid in and convert it through. What you’ve got to understand with Vitamins is, you use certain forms for a particular purpose for a particular period of time.

Jeff: Yeah, that’s a good point.

Matt: So, what you do, and it’s like any tool, you’ve got to use it for what it’s designed for. You don’t just take these things as generic prevention every day forever because that’s when you get the problems, that’s when you’re starting to overload your elimination capacity and overload your conversion pathways. So, what I’m saying is, if you’ve been told to take Folic Acid by your doctor to prevent Neural Tube defects…

Jeff: Do it.

Matt: …do it. But, in the long run, taking Folic Acid every day has actually got a Paradoxical effect—I’m never going to be able to say that—it has the opposite effect where it can actually cause problems.
Jeff: Well, we’ll get into that in a minute. Actually, it’s funny, because when Toni was looking at using a natural Folate supplement as opposed to a Folic Acid supplement, and I’m going off memory here so I could be incorrect, but she actually found that supplementing with Folic Acid had a few negative side effects associated with it; minor ones–I mean obviously it was worth the risk taking it—such as Tongue Tie. She found that using high amounts of Folic Acid can actually lead to Tongue Tie, which both of our children were.

Matt: But, Folic Acid is not natural, it’s not found in nature. The only place you find it in nature is in cooked foods that are boiled, and that sort of stuff, because you’ve actually converted it the Folates to Folic Acid, and in stored foods. 5MTHF is the natural form of Folate that we should really be supplementing with. This is quite interesting: the rest of the world does supplement with 5MTHF.

Jeff: In what form?

Matt: In 5MTHF as a supplement, Methylenetetrahydrofolate, it’s actually a form of Folate that’s naturally found in plants. It bypasses all of the conversion pathway issues that certain people have, and they’re finding a percentage of people who struggle to convert Folic Acid into the 5MTHF form and the Tetrahydrofolate forms, within the body—for example; we’ve talked about the MTHFR gene polymorphism…

Jeff: So, these polymorphisms where the body can’t do things that…

Matt: It just can’t convert the synthetic stuff into the form that the body can use.

Jeff: You said it was about 20% or something, going off memory?

Matt: I was trying to find the stats last night, actually.

Jeff: You did tell me but I can’t remember.

Matt: It just depends on the population. In certain populations it’s like 75% of the people and in other people it’s down to about 10% so that’s why they’re averaging it around 40 to 50% of the population.

Jeff: Gee, that’s a big percentage, Matt.

Matt: Oh massive. And, this is the frustrating thing. You know how I was talking about Folic Acid is the standardised marker, when they do medical trials they’ll say, “We’re going to give you a food or a supplement,” but they standardise that to tell us how much Folic Acid it yields. The conclusion of the study will say, “Supplementation with ‘this’ standardised to provide this much Folic Acid provides this protection against Neural Tube defects.” So, in Australia, for example, 5MTHF, which is the natural form of Folate that does all of the miraculous things that Folate can do, that is found in nature, that doesn’t have the side effects of the high dose Folic Acid, and I’ll tell you more about that in a sec, but it’s not on our list of acceptable ingredients to use in a TGA product.

Jeff: Right. This is just in Australia?

Matt: Yeah. But, Folic Acid is, because there’s all this evidence where Folic Acid is quoted into the text and 5MTHF is hard to measure in food. So, they don’t measure food and say, “Yielding this much 5MTHF,” or, “Containing this much 5MTHF,” they actually convert the 5MTHF to Folic Acid and then list it as Folic Acid in the study, so Folic Acid gets all the pats on the back saying, “You’ve done all these miraculous things,” but it’s not. And, then Folic Acid is on the list of available supplements in Australia but 5MTHF is not.

Jeff: That’s a shame, isn’t it?

Matt: But, other parts of the world use 5MTHF supplementation to prevent Neural Tube defects and it doesn’t have those side effects, you mentioned as Folic Acid.

Jeff: That’s amazing. And, we’re using Folic Acid as a case point, but this is true with many, many Vitamins: Vitamin C, Vitamin K, Vitamin D, E, and I’m talking some of the fat soluble Vitamins, but there are heaps of others. And, Matt, I don’t know if the guys might be interested in this, but I’ll run through quickly. In terms of—do you want me to get into this now or do you want me to let you finish your point on the Synthetic Vitamins?

Matt: The big point I wanted to make, with the Vitamin Paradox is this; when we’ve got Vitamin Deficiencies they’re deficient because we don’t have them in our food. Supplementing with a Synthetic form to compensate for the lack of natural forms is not working. The reason why it’s not working is because it’s overwhelming our body with a form that the body cannot utilise properly and it doesn’t have its other cofactors. It’s being used out of balance, it’s a fish out of water, basically, the body does not know how to use it.

These excess Vitamins, what they do is they actually become Pro Oxidants, they’re oxidised by products that backlog into our body, become more oxidative stress. And, we talk about Vitamins as being Antioxidants, you know, everyone talks about Vitamin A, C, E and all that sort of stuff, being Antioxidant. Well, they are Pro-oxidant when they’re not used properly. And, if they backlog what happens is, they overwhelm our conversion pathways, so we can’t actually convert this stuff through, effectively. The overwhelm our detoxification processes and they compete with other pollutants and stuff that we’re trying to detoxify, and the other thing they do, is they actually use up all of our Methylators and all of our Cofactors that are necessary for detoxification.

Take Folic Acid, for example, we actually use Folic Acid as a Methylator, but when you use Folic Acid instead of the Folates what happens is it uses up all of the Methyl Donors and all of the Methylation trying to convert it through to a Methyl Donor. The end result is, it actually screws up our Methylation processes, and there’s heaps of Vitamins that do that.

Jeff: And, that is the point. So, in summary, natural Vitamins which are found in food and in nature have got all of the Cofactors, the Bioflavonoids, and some things that haven’t been measured, or aren’t measured. And, this is the thing; you can look at a Vitamin and go, “Yeah, this ticks off Vitamin B1 through B12, they’ve got everything that you could possibly think of, but the problem is it doesn’t contain any of the associated Cofactors which help the body to utilise those and transport those effectively into the body. And, without those, these—I like to call the Artefacts, it’s like building a house with bricks but no mortar, and yeah, sure it might look right, but if it hasn’t got the mortar there it’s not going to do the job properly, it’s going to fall over.

Matt: And, you only need them in tiny amounts.

Jeff: That’s the other thing.

Matt: This is where a lot of this research has stemmed from, it’s trying to work out what doses of our Vitamins to add into a supplement.

Jeff: Well, you’ve always said, “More is not better.”

Matt: No.

Jeff: And, we’re in a society now where, “If 500 mgs of Vitamin C is good, I’ve got to take a Gram of Vitamin C.”

Matt: Well, especially—you imagine if you’re the guys doing the trials, and they’ve gone and said, “Okay, these obese people have got a Vitamin D deficiency,” for example, “I’m going to give them a certain dose of Vitamin D and then measure their blood levels,” and if that doesn’t top up their blood levels, what are you going to do? You’re going to add more.

Niacin, a classic example; they find Niacin levels really low in Diabetics, they then go, “Okay, I’m going to supplement with Niacin,” and what happens in that situation is they’re expecting their Niacin levels to build up in their blood, and it doesn’t, so what they do? They give you more. So, we’ve got into this pattern where the standard levels of supplementation for these Vitamins are getting higher and higher and higher, and the Metabolic Waste is becoming problematic.

Jeff: Actually, this is interesting with Niacin, which is B3, most pre workouts contain that, and that gives you that…

Matt: The Niacin Rush?

Jeff: The Niacin Rush, which is the flushing in the face and all the rest of it, but in isolation, Matt—so, this backlogging of the system, maybe we should get into the study from–

Matt: The Vitamin Paradox? Yeah, do it.

Jeff: The World Journal of Diabetes: “The Vitamin Paradox in Obesity, Deficiency or Excess.” So, this was published in August 2015, peer reviewed on May 23 2015. It basically goes through, Matt, and again, you fill in where I’m a bit short, but it goes through and it actually shows that, “The supplementation of Synthetic Vitamins is absolutely related to an increase in Obesity rates.”

Now, people might say, “That’s a big bow to draw.” I’ll read out the summary, Matt, and you might want to talk a little bit more about the actual study itself and how it went because it’s quite technical.

Matt: Yeah, yeah.

Jeff: But, we’ll put a link to it up on the website as well too.

Matt: Yeah, people can read it, it’s free.

Jeff: Here’s the conclusion: “In summary, it can be concluded that Vitamin Paradox and Obesity may be a reflection of excess Vitamin intake rather than Vitamin Deficiency. Given that there is a correlation between high Vitamin intake and the increased prevalence of Obesity it can be assumed that Obesity could be one of the manifestations of Chronic Vitamin Poisoning. Susceptible individuals with high Vitamin intake are those with low reserve capacity of excretory organs, therefore, on an individual basis, prevention of Obesity should focus on reducing their intake of Vitamin fortified foods, and for a country, more attention needs to be paid to the role of Vitamin Fortification and abuse and the increased prevalence of Obesity and related diseases.”

Now, I thought, “This is interesting,” and it’s talking about the use of Synthetic Vitamins–and it talks about this through the study—Fortified into Foods. Now, in the study it talks about, “In 1974, in the United States, and in many other countries as well, too—in 1974 they made it mandatory for Foods to be Fortified with Vitamins.” As you said, they were doing it, and whether it was in a noble cause, whether it was to help industry, whether it was a combination or what have you, like anything, where there’s money, corruption comes in, things get skewed off, they use the Synthetic forms of Vitamins. And, what has happened, and I want back to a CDC because I was looking at charts with regards to Obesity. So, in 1974 they brought in the Fortification of Foods. In 1980 they made it mandatory for the Fortification of Infant Formula with Synthetic forms of Vitamin.

Now, there’s a chart, and again we’ll put this up, this is statistics related to over-weight and Obesity, CDC, 2006 this study was performed, going back to 1962 to 2004.

Now, up until 1976 the level of Obesity in all demographics, children, middle aged and seniors was relatively flat, there was a slight increase but we’re talking about a nominal increase in Obesity rates. From 1976 onwards, that hockey sticks. Now, while you can’t just say that’s the sole cause, because obviously there may be other things that started happening…

Matt: What do you mean by ‘hockey sticks’? Spikes?

Jeff: It spikes. It just goes—I don’t know the technical word for it, but the statistical impact at that point is significant, it really increases.

Matt: It shoots up?

Jeff: It shoots up. While we won’t say it has caused it, it is certainly maybe an associating and contributing factor to Obesity.

Matt: Oh, absolutely. And, that Niacin is a perfect example of that because it touches on everything you were saying. There are a couple of really large Niacin trials where they used big doses of Nicotinic Acid, 1500 to 2000mgs per day, and they showed multiple adverse effects from that Nicotinic Acid where people lost their control of their Blood Sugar, it caused a lot of Oxidative Stress. It actually aggravated anyone that had Diabetes and made it go really bad, and new onset Diabetes occurred, and increased the risk of death.
Jeff: Wow! Was that associated with the Obesity or was it just for multiple factors?

Matt: That was just the Niacin trail, it actually showed people lost their ability to control Blood Sugar, they got a lot of Oxidative Stress through their body, a lot more Cardiovascular Disease and all those sort of things, and they increased the risk of death for all the complications of Blood Sugar issues, which would have included Obesity, Diabetes, and Cardiovascular events.

Jeff: Wow!

Matt: And, what they found is, when they take too big of doses of these supplements, what actually happens is, it overwhelms the Detoxification processes. And, what you’ll see, with Niacin, for example, with Nicotinamide Supplementation and Nicotinic Acid supplementation in high doses it overwhelms our Methylation processes. The body has to Detoxify through Methylation. Then, what happens is, our main Methylators in our body, Choline and Betaine, those sorts of things, they get stripped out and depleted and you’re not capable of Methylating other toxins as well. So, not only did it cause a lot of Oxidative Stress and a lot of direct damage and screw around with Blood Sugar control—and, this is interesting, these are the sorts of doses people use to control Cholesterol levels and everything as well. So, you see, it’s all counterintuitive now.

Jeff: Matt, this is huge.

Matt: But, when they depleted the Methylators in the body, you can’t Methylate things, and Methylation is important for Detoxifying of Catecholamines, so such things as Noradrenaline and Adrenaline that make Anxieties and Depression. Methylation also Detoxifies Estrogens and associated with Hormonal Dependent Cancers, and Methylation is involved in Detoxifying pollutants, Xenoestrogens, Pesticides, Fertilisers and everything.

Interestingly, in the trial, they found that if you were to actually combine these high doses of Niacin, or an accumulation, or excessive Niacin, with high Glucose the combination was disastrous. So, what do you reckon happens when they Fortify Grains with Niacin?

Jeff: Bread. Well, that’s what they do.

Matt: Exactly, and they’re saying that’s a major trigger for Insulin Resistance, and can cause excessive amounts of Oxidative Stress, and that can lead to all sorts of problems, Obesity and Cardiovascular Disease. But, interestingly in one trial, they found it significantly increased Appetite. So, what was happening was, combining the Glucose load, and you can imagine this was happening around the same time as they started making these pure white flours to make white bread. No one wanted sticks and twigs in amongst their breads anymore, so they started removing all of the husks so the flours were made very high Glycaemic Index. So, you get a big rush and a spike of Blood Glucose along with the big Insulin Response, along with Insulin Resistance induced by the by products of the Niacin Supplementation and the excessive Niacin. Increasing Appetite, increasing Obesity, increasing Cardiovascular Disease, as well as Anxieties and Depressions, and ultimately increased risk of death.

Jeff: Matt, it’s almost mind boggling. Because, if you really consider this for what we’re looking at here and what these studies are suggesting the conclusion is, that people doing the right things, or supposedly think that they’re doing the right thing by taking Multivitamins and Multiminerals and taking food that is Supplemented with these Synthetic Vitamins to make up for Deficiencies, they’re actually doing their body way more harm, in fact, to the point where this is almost a conspiracy, Matt.

Matt: Yeah, well it’s looking that way, almost, isn’t it?

Jeff: I don’t want to use that word, right.

Matt: Yeah, I know, I’m not a Conspiracy theorist type, but it’s kind of like—especially when you have a look at those graphs, it’s kind of freaky. But, we do know how many other factors are involved, such as lack of exercise, and all that sort of stuff.

Jeff: Yes.

Matt: And, poor dietary choices. But, if we go back and have a look at the ability for them to have focused their research 100 years ago onto improving quality of food and food processing techniques and everything like that, then yeah, maybe we’d be in a better place with these sorts of things.

Jeff: Well, this study that I read on the World Journal of Diabetes, the Vitamin Paradox, it actually goes then and says that it’s compounded. And, this is the thing as well, too, one thing in isolation is bad, like that’s bad, but that’s in isolation, but as you said—Okay, and we’ve spoken about the degradation of food and natural Vitamins and Minerals and Cofactors that might be there to help to offset some of this, that’s one. The second thing is, Matt, is that people are less active, we’re not an agrarian society, we’re not sweating as much as we used to…

Matt: Exactly.

Jeff: And, we work in air conditioned offices which make us sweat less. Now, from what I understand, and again, reading this research, some Vitamins have to be cleared through sweat, they can’t—and, I used to think, and in fact, until reading the study I thought if you’ve got more Vitamins than what your body needs, unless it’s Vitamin A which I knew could be toxic, then the body would just expel it through the urine, but that’s only true for some Vitamins; some Vitamins must be excreted through sweat.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: So, if we’re not exercising as much as we used to…

Matt: And Folic Acid and Niacin are a couple of those.

Jeff: Right. Which is obviously massive. Also, genetic disposition, Caucasians sweat more than most of the other Asian, African American, Hispanic, the Caucasians do, right?

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: So, therefore also babies that are born prematurely, especially if they’re born during winter, apparently, as well, have less capacity to be able to sweat.

Matt: Especially people that don’t exercise, sit in offices, they fit into those categories as well.

Jeff: So, again, you’re looking at individual indicators that might put you into a higher risk category than others.

Matt: So, to summarise what you’re saying is, our Vitamin intake has significantly increased, whether through Food Fortification, Food Volume…

Jeff: Or, Supplementing with Synthetic Vitamins.

Matt: …and, we’re sweating less, which means we can’t clear away these toxic compounds. That’s the problem with Folic Acid Fortification. Folic Acid you can’t clear away effectively. When you’re supplementing with Folic Acid the Folic Acid component builds up, the body can’t convert the Folic Acid through to the active forms the body uses. That Folic Acid then becomes and Oxidative Stress, it overwhelms your Elimination Pathways. If you’re not clearing it out through perspiration it builds up into your body, it then Oxidises, your body then has to clear it away, and to do that it utilises Methylation and Sulphation pathways. The whole reason why we’re adding Folic Acid as a Supplement, originally, was to Methylate Homocysteine, and Homocysteine is a waste that contributes to something like 30 to 40% of age related disorders from Mental, Cardiovascular Disease, Diabetes, Obesity, but Homocysteine is also a contributing factor with Neural Tube defects.

So, when you do these things in short term high doses then sometimes they work, and that’s how…

Jeff: Because, some of it’s going to get through and used.

Matt: Yeah, of course.

Jeff: But, it’s going to back log and create problems, especially over time.

Matt: Yeah, that’s right. So, the build-up of Folic Acid not converting through, what it does is, it overwhelms the Conversion Pathways, overwhelms Detoxification Systems, then what it does is it starts competing for Detoxification. And, if it’s competing for Detoxification with the exact same hormones it’s supposed to be Detoxifying–that’s how the excessive use of Folic Acid has been linked to Breast Cancers and Prostate Cancers and all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, that’s a good example the Folic Acid, the Niacin, and they’re just a couple of the water soluble Vitamins.

Jeff: It’s just amazing. Matt, before you get into the next point as well, I printed this out because I was just having a look at Synthetic versus Natural. Now again, Matt, we always say, “Nature knows best,” right?

Matt: Mm.

Jeff: So, I just wanted to break down, and some of these things sound a little bit more scary than what they are, but some of them, Matt, are pretty…

Matt: Scary?

Jeff: Yeah, they are.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: Like, Synthetic Vitamin A, is made from combining Fish or Palm Oil with Beta-ionone. Now, Palm Oil, obviously Deforestation, killing of the Orangutans, they’re saying it’s one of the largest things people are socially or globally aware of. The use of Palm Oil, which is used in a lot of industries, by the way, is associated with Deforestation and putting Orangutans at risk.

Matt: And, check your MCT Supplements too, because you know how the MCT has got really popular, they’re making that out of Palm Oil.

Jeff: There’s a lot of companies now coming saying they use Palm Oil that is natural and does not work on Deforestation, which is obviously a noble thing.

Matt: So, here’s one for personal health and reasons why I don’t like Synthetics: Vitamin B1, made from Coal Tar, Ammonia, Acetone and Hydrochloric Acid. B2; Riboflavin made with Acetic Acid, Nitrogen using Genetically Modified Bacteria. B3; Nicotinic Acid using Coal Tar, Ammonia, Acids and Formaldehyde. Vitamin B6; uses Formaldehyde and is not really absorbed or converted and has been shown to inhibit the action of Natural B6. So, taking a Synthetic form of B6 has been shown to actually inhibit the uptake of B6. I mean is that most stupid thing you’ve ever heard?

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: Then B9; Folic Acid doesn’t exist in natural foods, as you’ve just said.

Jeff: It’s hardly ‘be-nine’, is it?

Matt: No. Oh, very funny. It’s crystalline, it’s not easily absorbed despite large amounts being added to Vitamin Supplements. It comes from Petroleum Derivatives. So, that’s your Folic Acid.

Jeff: In B12 Cobalt and Cyanide are fermented. Vitamin C; ascorbic acid is an isolated Vitamin from Genetically Modified Corn Sugar that is Hydrogenated and processed with Acetone. There are no Bioflavonoids. The body’s ability to be able to utilise Synthetic Vitamin C is almost non-existent. Vitamin D; and this is a big one, Matt. When I read this I thought, this can’t be true; obviously we get it from the sun, but natural sources are mushroom, yeast and from Lichen. 20 minutes of sunlight provides most of the Vitamin D that we need. Now, we’re using sunscreen now, we’re covering up, obviously, because everyone’s worried about skin cancer, and that’s fair and reasonable, but getting some sunlight exposure, especially in the morning or in the late afternoon is actually a good idea.

Matt: Right in the middle of the day. It’s a controversial thing, what time of day to do it.

Jeff: Well, actually, I saw a study that showed that people even with Melanoma, and again, I can’t quote the study, I’ll have to go back and find it, but people who are getting moderate exposure to the sun with Melanoma and skin cancers were surviving longer than those who stayed out of sunlight completely. Isn’t that interesting.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: Anyway, let me finish up on this, “Vitamin D3 is the most effective form of Vitamin D, some of that comes from our own skin and Lichen. Mushrooms and Yeast offer D2. Synthetic Vitamin D to mimic the natural production we find in our skin scientist irradiate animal fat to stimulate Vitamin D3 synthesis,” and that’s what you’re eating.

Matt: Yum. it’s gross.

Jeff: And lastly, “Synthetic Vitamin K comes from Coal Tar and Derivatives and Genetically Modified and Hydrogenated Soy Bean Oil and uses Hydrochloric Acid and Nickel. It is considered highly toxic and damaging to the Immune System.”

Matt: I’m glad you mention it, because we were just talking about that Folic Acid. So, if you think about man, for the Government’s initiative to go through and supply the population with Folic Acid, okay? They could support the Petroleum Industry and utilise their waste products and everything to chemically synthesise it and make a certain consistent level per gram of Folic Acid to be added into foods, that’s easily incorporated into foods, or they can go through work on improving the soil, improving the farming, improving farming practises, improving food processing techniques, controlling the amount of Folic Acid per gram of that food powder by measuring, and all that extra cost of measuring the Folic Acid found in those foods, and blah, blah, blah.

That’s why they go through and just spike up our foods with this synthetic one because it’s so cheap and easy and supports other industries compared to going through and treating the root cause, which is poor farming practises, poor food techniques and poor soil and all that sort of stuff. That’s why we’re in this problem. And, that’s why they’ll go through and throw the baby out with the bathwater and say that Natural Medicine is a load of rubbish. You just have a look at what Vitamins are doing. But, this is hardly Natural Medicine?

Jeff: It’s not. And, the funny thing, Matt, we’ve touched a little bit on our food. And, this is the other thing as well, and this is why I say I absolutely go crazy. When I hear someone say, “Right, the science is settled,” it’s like, “Excuse me?”

Matt: That’s when you start again.

Jeff: No, let’s go 180 degrees from whatever that person is saying. Now, I look at GMO Foods. Now, today is not the podcast to get into GMOs, you know that I’m not a huge fan of them, and there’s many, many reasons. In fact, if you are interested do yourself a favour and Google Indian Deaths and Monsanto. The amount of farmers that are committing suicide in India because they’re taking the BT Cotton and that’s what they’re farming with, and many of them are going into their fields and taking Roundup and drinking Roundup and killing themselves. The count, they believe, is over 100,000 just from dealing with Genetically Modified Crops, because what’s happening is, the yield is actually not there, and so these guys are, effectively, going bankrupt and they’ve got no way out, so they’re committing suicide. It’s terrible, Matt.

Anyway, the point that I’m trying to make though, is even if you’re a fan of GMOs because you say the world needs it, and I’ll argue that we don’t, that Genetically Modified Crops—in fact there was a 20-year study that was done by one of the universities from 1996 to 2011, there you go, 15 years, there was actually a reduction in yield from GMO plants. But, the big problem is, is that the increase in the amount of pesticides and herbicides that they’re using as well too, has skyrocketed. Because, what they do is, they manufacture a Genetically Modified Corn or Cotton or Soy Bean or whatever it is, and they can absolutely plaster it with pesticides and herbicides, because these are resistant to it. So, it kills absolutely everything near it, which is then obviously designed to get more yield, less bugs, less problems with the crop, but that’s getting into our food sources as well, too, Matt.

Matt: Yeah, exactly.

Jeff: The other thing that’s interesting is that, and I’m not even going to get into…

Matt: Hang on, they’ll argue that those Glyphosates and those sort of compounds…

Jeff: That’s the big one.

Matt: …do not damage our cells. And, there’s plenty of evidence to say they do not directly damage our cells.

Jeff: Who was the study done by?

Matt: I don’t know, but imagine what they do to our natural Gut Flora, okay?

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: So, our natural Gut Flora covered in bugs, there’s 10 times as many of those as there are of us, and so they’re the big things that control our rates of Obesity and Inflammation. What makes you think that Glyphosate isn’t killing them? It is. It is, and through Intestinal Dysbiosis it can cause a lot of problems. That’s the other reason why you should eat organic.

Jeff: And, that’s it, even if you are eating GMOs and all the rest of it, and again, I’m not talking about the gene splicing and how they actually make stuff. There’s a lot of people that say genetically the plant is Franken food, that it is so far away from what our body needs, and sure we might have the Macro Nutrients but the Micro Nutrients are just off the charts. But, let’s suspend that argument for another day, and again, I appreciate a lot of people believe in GMOS.

Matt: Let’s talk about Fat Soluble Vitamins.

Jeff: But, what I was going to say though, is that the additional use of Pesticides and Herbicides is something else that’s obviously causing a massive problem.

Matt: Absolutely. And, guess what? Methylation processes, we need Methylation and Sulphation, we need our Detoxification processes working perfectly to be able to strip that stuff out.

Jeff: That’s right.

Matt: So, again, our Vitamin overload is overwhelming our Detoxification Processes, we’re not eliminating this stuff, it’s then overwhelming our other Detoxification Systems so we can’t process this other stuff, and that accumulates as well and has a greater effect, like you’re saying. Then we kill off our Gut Flora with the Roundup, and you’re in big trouble. Let’s talk about something nice, let’s talk about fat.

Jeff: Cool, let’s talk about fat.

Matt: Fat Soluble Vitamins. We mainly talked about the Water Soluble ones, and there’s always been that idea, and you said it earlier, that you thought the only real one you could get toxic from was Vitamin A, and the reason why we always had that belief was because it’s Fat Soluble. But the Water Soluble ones you’re thinking, “Well, if I can’t utilise it I’ll just wee it out, it will go straight through,” and some of them do and some don’t. But, with the Fat Soluble Vitamins they’re pretty hard to clear out if you get a toxic level because they’re fat soluble, so they’ll store into the liver, they’ll store into our fat tissue, our Adipose Tissue, and the only way we can eliminate them through our skin is in the form of Sebum, which can then aggravate the greasiness of our skin.

So, interestingly with Vitamin A, you know how you were saying before that you can get toxic levels, and that can cause major problems.

Jeff: Well, my Great Grandma actually got it from eating too many carrots, believe it or not; weird right?

Matt: Yeah, well see that Carotenosis you see that changes the colour of the skin except the whites of the eyes, which is interesting. So that’s how you can tell the difference between Jaundice and Carotenosis because the whites of the eyes stay white and you just turn into a carrot.

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: They used to have a lot of problems with Cod Liver Oil too, as a big dose of Vitamin A and E, everyone used to just dose up on those, and that can accumulate into the body. But, even smaller doses of Vitamin A when taken in the form of Beta Carotene and not taken with all of the Carotenoids, and not in the balanced ratios, that’s been shown to increase all sorts of cancers, especially in smokers. They did those trials with smokers…

Jeff: Yeah, you’ve spoken about that before.

Matt: Yeah, and it increases their rate of lung cancer. They’ve even found people that smoke and take Vitamin A and Multivitamins get more Prostate Cancer. There’s a lot of links with Beta Carotene, and again, especially with smokers, because that’s another Oxidative Stress that’s amplified by the Pro Oxidant Beta Carotene.

Jeff: Right, there’s the link. So, it’s just bizarre, isn’t it?

Matt: But, it’s not just in the smokers, it’s a Pro Oxidant in a lot of people. There’s a lot of evidence linking excessive Beta Carotene Supplementation or a long term Beta Carotene Supplementation with an increased risk of cancers. So, not a good one.

What about Vitamin E, they did a trial with Vitamin E, another Fat Soluble Vitamin. We talk about it as an Antioxidant all the time.

Jeff: Yeah, good for scarring.

Matt: Yeah, and you know why it’s good for scarring? It slows down healing.

Jeff: That’s right.

Matt: Yeah, so you heal slower so you get less scar there. So, with Vitamin E, we use Vitamin E and Vitamin C are often used together as Antioxidants. The way they work as Antioxidants is by activation of the Glutathione Detoxification System but the by-products or the recycled end product of that reaction is Vitamin C and Vitamin E. And, interestingly they find when you do big doses of Vitamin C and Vitamin E it actually overwhelms or overburdens the Glutathione System by increasing the amount of waste product they’re making, which is Vitamin C and Vitamin E, it backlogs the whole process.

Jeff: And Glutathione, Matt, just explain quickly.

Matt: It’s a very important Detoxification and Antioxidant System known as Glutathionylation, that’s one of our best Antioxidants, one of our immediate Defence Mechanisms against Oxidative Stress. So, taking too much Vitamin C—and you know how people do the IV Vitamin C?

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: And, they go, “Right, I’m going to be loaded up with Antioxidants forever, because I’ve just done this ridiculous dose of Vitamin C”. It doesn’t work like that IV, it works as a Pro-oxidant and it works like Hydrogen Peroxide or something like that. But, it will actually sterilise anything it touches.

Jeff: I’m just laughing because, obviously I’ve worked with body builders and competitive guys for a long time and I know, again, more is better, and a lot comes from that mentality. I’ve heard of guys where the skin on their palms started peeling off because they were using IV bags full of Vitamin C.

Matt: Yeah, well we won’t talk about who that is. But, the other thing is, with that Vitamin E, they did some Vitamin E studies trying to prove its powerful effects as an Antioxidant over time, making us live forever because, apparently, Antioxidants do that. They only used 400 international units of Vitamin E, most Supplements out there are 500 or 1000 international units of Vitamin E, but they did 400, so it’s not a big dose, and that’s what I’m saying, it’s not a big dose. But, it’s something, in its form that’s not natural.

There are eight different forms of Vitamin E, there are four Tocopherols and four Tocotrienols—I don’t even know how to say that one, I just realised, it’s just one of those things I’ve been reading but never saying. But, there’s eight different forms of Vitamin E but they typically supplement with one Synthetic form DL Alpha Tocopherol, and when they did that one of 400 international units it increased all their Cardiovascular Disease, increased their rate of death, and all caused increased the risk of death.

Jeff: But, hand on. DL, the DL form though, I mean the body can’t absorb DL properly, can it?

Matt: No, well it can in this form because it’s Fat Soluble, so it slips through and it starts accumulating causing Oxidative Stress because it’s not in its natural form with all the other Tocopherols and Tocotrienols. D Alpha is the natural form of D-Alpha-Tocopherol, not DL.

So, that’s a big thing with Vitamin E is it’s actually increasing the risk of death. But, you see what we can do, we can use these things as small tools. Vitamin E is famous as it’s an anti-sterility compound in women, so basically Vitamin E had become famous because of its ability to suppress the Immune System at the Mucosa at the time of implantation. And, for that sort of purpose—so, when you’re using a thing for a purpose you can use these tools at a high dose for a short period of time to improve the rate of fertility, then you stop, you don’t need it after that.

And, the same with a lot of these things, we use high doses of Folic Acid in a very short term to correct Homocysteine excess and then you measure your levels and when your levels are normal you go back to natural levels, or regular top ups every once in a while to keep it good; you need breaks so your body can clear away the backlog, and then all this stuff starts working again.

Vitamin D, another Fat Soluble Vitamin. A really interesting one, every second person, or actually more, so many people are coming through showing that their Vitamin D levels in their blood is low, and the doctors are always measuring Vitamin D now because that links to Osteoporosis and all that sort of stuff, and they’ve found that Obese people have got a lot more Vitamin D Deficiencies than the general population. But, what was interesting in the studies on Vitamin D with Obese people is, they were using massive doses and it was hardly changing their levels. And, interestingly, most studies on Vitamin D, where they link Vitamin D Deficiency with a disease, and they go and supplement with Vitamin D to fix it, it doesn’t fix anything, they just made the association that Vitamin D is low in those people, but supplementing Vitamin D doesn’t reverse anything. So, it’s obviously not causing these problems that they suspected it was because it’s not fixing it when they replace it.

But, understand that Vitamin D, Fat Soluble Vitamin, when you take excess it gets stored into the fat, so you take a mega dose what happens is it goes into the fat cells. So, what they’ve found with the Obesity trials with Vitamin D when they loaded these people up with mega doses of Vitamin D because they were so Deficient, their blood levels of Vitamin D only increased by about 20 to 30%, but the amount of Vitamin D in their Adipose Tissue, in their fat tissue on their hips, increased by about 650%. So, what was happening was, if you’re just loading it in it’s just getting absorbed into the fat soluble parts of the body. The reason why it’s Deficient is the concern. We’ve got to look at that Vitamin D is made from Cholesterol—well, Cholesterol irradiated by the sun in your skin—so, what you said before about the irradiation of animal fat, that’s pretty much how we make Vitamin D in our body. Cholesterol is the sterol that they use as the precursor and they UV rays irradiate that and it makes Vitamin D, and Vitamin D works like a hormone, where it actually interacts with cell receptors and antennas. It works more like a hormone than a Vitamin.
Jeff: And, the cool thing again, about nature is that you can’t overload on Vitamin D through natural sources because you’re going to get burnt if you stay out in the sun too long.

Matt: Exactly, yeah.

Jeff: So, it’s going to force you out of the sun, and you’re going to stay out of the sun at least if you get burnt that day, or the next few days you’re not going to go into the sun.

Matt: Once your skin is damaged you can’t make Vitamin D.

Jeff: Right?

Matt: So, what happens is, you get burnt and you get enough skin damage your Vitamin D synthesis stops, even if you are stuck out in the sun. But, interestingly with the more Government initiatives to encourage the use of sunscreens all that stuff, and the SPF gone from eight to 15, to 30 to 50, you just may as well be wearing a raincoat, you get nothing. And, like I said, it’s made from Cholesterol.

The other most commonly prescribed drug out there is Cholesterol lowering medication. So, the HMG CoA Reductase Inhibitor medicine causes Vitamin D Deficiency as well. Other things that are made from Cholesterol it can screw with as well. Testosterone is made from Cholesterol, Co Enzyme Q10 is made from Cholesterol, so Co Enzyme Q10 is involved in Oxygenation of our tissues and a big link to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Cardiovascular Disease. So, possibly the lack of sunlight or sun exposure, the campaigns to avoid sun in the middle of the day—and, that’s a controversial topic because they find at the ends of the day the sun’s got to go through different layers of atmosphere before it gets to us, they find sunlight through a window is changed, it doesn’t do the Vitamin D the same. But, they find the best time of day to get the Vitamin D production is when the sun’s directly overhead, so in the middle of the day.

Jeff: Well, you know the Government is trying to kill us now, because that’s what’s happening with all the Chemtrails.

Matt: Oh no.

Jeff: No, I’m joking. In terms of the whole conspiracy theorists, we’re going to get some emails on that one there. Conspiracy theorists are going, “Exactly,” and other people are going to be going, “You’re mad.” No, I don’t have a dog in that fight, but what I was going to say is in terms of the sunscreen as well, the other thing that worries me, the things that I know, not talking conspiracies here, is the long chain Hydrocarbons that are in a lot of sunscreens as well too. I mean we do use sunscreens for our boys, and obviously in Australia we’ve got quite a harsh climate and they can get burnt if they’re playing outside, but we use a natural one that doesn’t have any of those. So, obviously, Matt, you’ve got to get those balances right though too, don’t you? Because, obviously you don’t want them to get skin damage.

Matt: Yeah, this isn’t a podcast on how to tan.

Jeff: No. But, what you’re saying about the importance of Vitamin D and trying to get it from natural sources, these are things that we obviously need to consider. Alright Matt, so Vitamin K.

Matt: Well, Vitamin K, the last of the Fat Soluble Vitamins I was going to tell you about. There are all these supplements for it, but it’s actually made in our gut from green leafy vegetables and bacteria. So, we don’t really even need to supplement with that one, we need to make sure we’ve got adequate levels of Vitamin K, I’m not going to get into the baby stuff today.

Jeff: What baby stuff?

Matt: The Vitamin K injections for the blue babies and the clotting and all that sort of stuff.

Jeff: Oh okay. Because, Vitamin K is important for blood clotting.

Matt: Exactly. That’s where it gets its name, from a German word of Koagulation, spelt with a K.

Jeff: Well, in German, anything that starts with C is K.

Matt: Yeah, so it’s associated with Coagulation effects. So, the thing is, imagine this, if you had a Vitamin K Deficiency, which makes your blood clot, you’re supplementing with high doses of Vitamin E that makes your blood thin, you can have risk of Haemorrhaging.

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: And, the opposite conversely, if you’re supplementing with Vitamin K and you’ve got Deficiencies in other things you can get extra clotting. So, Vitamin K is quite a tricky controversial topic in regards to which supplements to use, how to use them, what the dose is. But, interestingly again, these bugs that are so important for us convert the compounds in the green leafy veggies into Vitamin K. So again, the need for a good healthy intestinal Flora—and, the other B Vitamin we didn’t mention before was Vitamin B12 and that is also made by the Gut Flora. So, again Gut Flora is so important.

And oh mate, again, if you’ve got these poisons on your foods, and they’re killing off your Gut Flora then you’re not making B12. If you can’t make B12—B12 is a very important Cofactor for Folic Acid to work. So, we going through Fortifying the Foods with Folic Acid, load up with Folic Acid, and the enzymes that convert Folic Acid to the form the body uses are Vitamin B12 dependent, and if your Gut Flora is wrong then it doesn’t work. Again, it’s a vicious cycle, man.

And, you see the studies that are showing all the Dysbiosis and problems with Intestinal Flora linking through to Obesity and all that sort of stuff. Maybe it’s the link with the Vitamin B12.

Jeff: Wow! It’s just so funny–there’s a lot of questions here and I think people rightly should be suspicious, Matt, not from maybe a point of view…

Matt: You’ve seen the answer too, though. Nature’s smarter than us.

Jeff: Exactly. And, I guess this is the problem though, Nature is being completely adulterated now by the hands of big business.

Matt: Hijacked, yeah.

Jeff: And again, not that all corporations are evil, Evil Corp if people watch Mr Robot, which I think is funny. But, that’s a conspiracy show if ever you’ve seen one. But, it comes down to, things are getting stuffed up, whether it’s a conspiracy or whether it’s greed, or whether it’s a combination of both, it doesn’t matter. The end result is, people are suffering, people’s health is clearly suffering. We can see the Obesity rate is on the rise, we can see that the rate of Diabetes is on the rise, we know that one in three people in the western society are going to contract cancer, we know that one in two are going to get heart disease. I mean these things shouldn’t be, and again it comes back down to the quality of our food.
Matt: And, I believe that the scientists—I believe the intended purpose is good, I believe people are actually trying to find the cures for disease, and I believe people are trying to find what is causing these rates of things to skyrocket, Obesities and Cancers and all that sort of stuff. And, I believe that the people behind this science are really trying to do the right thing but it’s getting high jacked. Because, it’s easier, the individuals that are making the final decisions, deciding, “Are we going to just throw in this synthetic chemical or are we going to go back and try to improve, soil, farming, food processing?” People are so worried about getting votes…

Jeff: Absolutely.

Matt: Politicians just want to get votes, the other guys just want to hit their targets for the sales.

Jeff: Of course.

Matt: So, it’s individuals that are getting involved in the decision making process that either aren’t the experts in the topic they’re trying to make a decision for, or they’ve got a conflict of interest, or they’re bias, or they’re just trying to cover their arse.

Jeff: And, it’s one of those things, Matt, you can vote with your mouth, and this is a big one as well, too. And, I know in The States we talk about it, in Australia, wherever, you’ve got lobbyists who go in from big industry who lobby government. Now, they’re the ones with the money, they’re the ones who actually influence. Now, the old saying goes, he who has the gold or the money makes the rules, and that is true. However, the ultimate power lies with the consumer.

Matt: Don’t give them your gold.

Jeff: No. Tuck it under your mattress.

Matt: No, give you gold to the farmer that’s doing things organically and nice.

Jeff: But, this is where we need to get back to these local growers, this is where we need to get these local markets going, eat fresh. I mean the quality of food, Matt, that we get is so absolutely important for the quality of life that we’re going to get, and it’s difficult. Fast food is easy, we live in a busy society today, and doing the right thing is difficult, but it’s like anything in life, anything that is worthwhile is always hard.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: So, Matt, for me and in summary as well too, the things that we’re talking about then, you can’t combat everything. We recognise that it’s not always possible to eliminate food that has Pesticides and Herbicides, and again, let’s not even get into the GMO side of things, but you need access to quality Vitamins and Minerals, which definitely the majority of that should come from your food.
Outside of that, Matt, obviously the Paradox is that we know that it’s difficult for a lot of people to get the quality Vitamins and Minerals that they need.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: So, in my opinion, and you tell me where you think differently, people should avoid trying to get Synthetic Vitamins and Minerals in their food, try and avoid Fortified Foods as much as possible. If you are going to Supplement with food because you feel you’re not getting enough from your food because the quality might not be there because of the farming practises and the processing and what have you, look for a natural Multivitamin, one that has non-Synthetic forms of Vitamins and Minerals.

Matt: Yes. Yes, that’s right.

Jeff: And, we’re working on that as a solution, in fact in July 2016 we’re bringing out a Multi, but again, even we’ll say it, Food is your Medicine, Medicine is your food. Start there.

Matt: Yeah, that’s right. Exactly. Nature knows best, we can’t try to be smarter than Nature. You’ve got to focus on food processing techniques, good quality farming, and then understanding how to measure and accurately know how much nutrients are found in those foods so you can dose them up properly. And, that’s just education and access to the right stuff.

Jeff: But, it is systemic, Matt, as we can see, it’s not just one thing that’s causing everything, it’s actually a systemic spiral to the bottom, really, with a lot of these things.

Matt: And, understand, if the media gets a hold of this sort of information and they go onto a campaign saying, “The Natural Medicine Industry is a big scam, have a look at this whole Supplementation Scam…

Jeff: Oh, they’ll spin it.

Matt: They’ll spin it and say that the Natural Medicine Industry is evil, we’re poisoning everyone and we’re the crooks. But, we’re not, the Natural Medicine Industry has been high jacked by big business making Synthetic crap and throwing it down our throat, and then they go through and say that Multivitamins is complementary medicine, or Natural Medicine and throw all the herbs and throw all the natural forms of Vitamins and everything in with it, and they then say the whole lot is evil.

Jeff: Well, they’ve been saying for a long time, and I’m talking about MSM or Mainstream Media has been saying for a long time, and they’ve been relatively benign with it, but at best it’s useless, it’s worthless. If this sort of information came out and people with deep pockets decided to make a campaign against Natural Medicines, and we’ve seen it before in this country when Pan Pharmaceutical, which is a large manufacturer of Supplements went down because they were dodgy, and that brings the whole industry into disrepute, which is terrible, but it’s not, it’s because of those dodgy bastards.

Matt: But, they were dodgy making pharmaceuticals, not even natural stuff.

Jeff: Travel Calm, that was what started the whole thing off, but yet the Pharmaceutical Industry didn’t get touched because if the mainstream started attacking them well who’s going to get sued? Or, worse, who’s going to pull any of their advertising?

Matt: Yeah, that’s right.

Jeff: And, that’s the problem with that. You’ve got to look beyond what you’re going to get spoon fed through the Main Stream Media because there are vested interests. Man, we do sound like conspiracy theorists.

Matt: I know, but oh man, lucky it’s a podcast, we’d never get aired on TV. Lord no.

Jeff: No. But, in terms, Matt, is there anything else. I think we’ve summarised. Is there anything else you want to add?

Matt: No, I’m pretty good.

Jeff: Cool. Alright, last word for the day?

Matt: Oh, funk.

Jeff: Funk? Why?

Matt: Yeah, funk. Funk invented the word Vitamin.

Jeff: Oh, Funkamins?

Matt: No, just Funk.

Jeff: Oh, that’s cool.

Matt: Why did he call them Vitamins when his name was Funk? We could have had a really funky word for our Vitamins.

Jeff: I don’t know. Anyway, that’s interesting. Thanks Matt, we’ll be back next week with some more conspiracy theories. No, we’ll be back with some more information on FAQs. Okay done.

Matt: Hooroo.

Jeff: Hooroo, see you then. Bye.